Curse

Luthor · Oct 31, 2005, 01:19 PM // 13:19

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cunning

You're complaining, whining and crying because you can't get PvP specific armor?

Wow.

complain, whine and cry somewhere else please.

Sorry thought this was a suggestion forum.
Why don't you take your stupidity and flaming with you and not bother posting in this thread again unless you have something to contribute.

kg_lildude1 · Oct 31, 2005, 01:23 PM // 13:23

luthor we have a word on this forum for people like you

TROLL

you act incredibly immature for someone your age, and people think that 12 year olds are responible for all the wrong-doings of the game?

Luthor · Oct 31, 2005, 01:24 PM // 13:24

Quote:

Originally Posted by kg_lildude1

don't put words in my mouth that i don't even mention

and you assume that Anet isnt working on PvP?

do you know how much frickin time they spend testing all the new builds and fads to see if they are fair, or need to be downgraded?

they spend more time on pvp than you think, and your insulting them by saying they don't

Yes, they spend time balancing PvP builds, doesn't mean that they also don't spend time balancing PvE either.
No, I'm not complaining about Anet. PvE'ers are making it look that way.
Sorry if I am. It's just frustrating to see them shut down a simple idea while when they suggest anything it's the greatest idea in the world.
I love Anet and am happy for the work they do.

Quote:

luthor we have a word on this forum for people like you

TROLL

you act incredibly immature for someone your age, and people think that 12 year olds are responible for all the wrong-doings of the game?

Why don't you stop flaming. I never started this fight, you did.

2_fingers · Oct 31, 2005, 01:29 PM // 13:29

Quote:

Originally Posted by Luthor

No, I'm taking a stand for the PvP community. PvE'ers have had enough time in the spot light. Did PvP'ers get a new map? Nope. Did we complain about it? Nope. The PvE'ers could careless about us. "We need this, we need that." You know what, take a step back from yourselves and see what you are saying. Then you say PvP'ers can't get anything. Sounds pretty selfness to me. I don't care if you PvP or not and I don't care if I don't know you, heck I don't care about you at all if you don't care, cuz you obviously have no respect for me.

/NOT SIGNED

LMAO. Taking a stand for pvp community indeed. Guess what. Take a look at guildwars update page. GW didnt do anything for Pvp? Didnt make any changes for pvp? Dude. They nerfed stuff like Ether renewal, spirit spam because it AFFECTED PVP. Did the players of pve even bother with abusing those skills? No. Go look. Alot of the changes in pve tend to be cosmetic - where else the pvp changes are global and affect BOTH pvp and pve. Pvp Extreme weekend? Forgot about that right? Oh no.. How about the update to make the extreme weekend permanent?

Believe it or not - there is elitism growing in gw - and part of it is because of /rank - which is entirely because of pvp. It has gone to the extent that people are picking up groups for thunderhead keep based on /rank 3.

Pvp Gets alot of stuff. Just different from pve. Y should pvp get an armour that sets them away from pve? Its not as if you cannot take the effort to create a pve character, get ur fow armour for it and then use it for pvping.

As it is, Anet is balancing up on both pvp and pve - they do include new content to both periodically either in terms of critical updates, extreme weekend or sf.

Guildwars as pvp? Guild = collection of people. Wars = conflict. Guildwars can be interepreted merely as a guild + wars. It does not mean there needs to be inter guild wars, pvp - it can just mean guild versus environment as well. Using the name to denote pvp when the name itself is ambigous is a ludicrous argument.

It so happens that recently, anet has opened sf and people like you start whining. You want serious pvp, go play counterstrike.

Catalin Dracul · Oct 31, 2005, 01:37 PM // 13:37

Quote:

Originally Posted by 2_fingers

Why should pvp get an armour that sets them away from pve? Its not as if you cannot take the effort to create a pve character, get ur fow armour for it and then use it for pvping.

How long does it take to farm for the 1mil+gold that you need for FoW armour?
Oh yeah, a LONG time. If someone wants to PvP and have cool looking armour why should they have to grind to get it?

Luthor · Oct 31, 2005, 01:40 PM // 13:40

Quote:

Originally Posted by 2_fingers

Believe it or not - there is elitism growing in gw - and part of it is because of /rank - which is entirely because of pvp. It has gone to the extent that people are picking up groups for thunderhead keep based on /rank.

That's just stupid. PvP has nothing to do with thunderhead keep. The reason I see this happening is that everyone thinks a PvP player is better than a PvE player. That is poor thinking. I've found many PvE players that are just as good as a PvP player can be.

Quote:

Pvp Extreme weekend? Forgot about that right? Oh no.. How about the update to make the extreme weekend permanent?

Yes, I remember this event. But what about when faction becomes useless?
Can't do anything with it if you can't unlock anything.

Quote:

Guildwars as pvp? Guild = collection of people. Wars = conflict. Guildwars can be interepreted merely as a guild + wars. It does not mean there needs to be inter guild wars, pvp - it can just mean guild versus environment as well. Using the name to denote pvp when the name itself is ambigous is a ludicrous argument.

Yes, Guild wars can mean multiple things. I didn't mean to sound as if it should only be PvP. I was just remarking to a person's comment.

Anyways, thank for you making helpful and considerate post.
Guild Wars is about community.
We shouldn't be fighting with eachother.

Quote:

How long does it take to farm for the 1mil+gold that you need for FoW armour?
Oh yeah, a LONG time. If someone wants to PvP and have cool looking armour why should they have to grind to get it?

Catalin Dracul, I don't understand where you are coming from. Is that sarcasm? Cuz that doesn't make sense.

2_fingers · Oct 31, 2005, 01:48 PM // 13:48

More offended with ur method of arguing rather than ur content.

The thing is, if the arguments that it takes mindless and boring grinding to get our 15k armour and fow armour and if pvp was to have that kind of armour - then the same formula should apply. Faction now perhaps is too easy too easy to earn.

If unlocking was to take place, bearing in mind the effort that pve players go thru to make their armour, set the unlocking limit to be very high - such that it would take a few weeks to a few months of farming faction to get a single piece of armour for a single class. (Considering that the cost of fow armour can be from 700 000 to 1.5 million and be extremely time intensive)

Personally, i find that pvp players tend to have a bit more restraint and tend to be more willing to follow instructions. The quality is slightly higher. That is not to say that i've not seen good pve players either. Or sucky pvp players.

beginners_luck · Oct 31, 2005, 03:22 PM // 15:22

I think a better idea than making a pvp-only armor set is to simply give pvp-ers all the normal pve armor options (short of FoW and the 15k sets). For example, give us the other necro and mesmer armor sets, if only for aesthetic reasons. I think they left out a monk set, also, and a warrior one.

Josh · Oct 31, 2005, 05:53 PM // 17:53

Quote:

Originally Posted by Luthor

There it goes again. PvE'er players thinking for themselves.
If you ask me I could careless about Chapter 2.
PvE'ers want all the attention... Know what the name of the game is? Guild Wars. Isn't this game meant for PvP?
Seriously, why can't you see from the side of a PvP'er instead of thinking for yourself.
This isn't about the armor. PvP'ers need something too.

Yes because a 4/8 man battle is really a Guild War.

So should they make an ultimate PvE armour, but not for PvP, by the way, what IS the point in new armour JUST for PvE..huh?

+ What's the point spending money on that when they could spend it on more resources and time for Chapter 2 of GW? I don't care that you don't care about Chapter 2, but your 1-man opinion doesn't resolve around the whole of A-Net's decisions.

lyra_song · Oct 31, 2005, 06:19 PM // 18:19

Quote:

Originally Posted by Luthor

Are you seriously kidding?
So PvE'ers can get your armor but us PvP'ers can't?
Don't make me quote you from my other thread you hypocrite.

ok i'll quote me.

first post by me

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lyra_Song

/not signed

15k is all for aesthetics. The existing 1.5 armor in PvP is the same stats as 15k.

Without things like 15k or FoW armor as an exclusive, theres even LESS motivation to play PVE.

My friend quit Guild Wars because he considered PVE quests/missions, money, and aesthetic value useless because he primarily a PvP player. When the Ranger interrupts got nerfed (he played that build obviously) he quit because there was nothing left for him to do.

So what am i saying here? PvE Is boring (Which you do agree with). If PvP players get PvE only stuff...what the point of playing PvE? Again, i go by my statement, Guild Wars is PVP-centric because skill changes and balances are implemented to balance PvP and not PvE. In fact if they started balanced skills for PvE players, you would be pretty annoyed. My friend put ZERO value in 15k armor or rare items and weapons or aesthetics. He only cared about winning PvP.

My arguement for disagreeing is motivation. PvE has its motivation to play...and PvP has its motivation to play. You take away one and give it to the other, then you screw the game.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lyra_song

I call this the seperation of PvP and PvE.

Money is useless in PvP. Faction is useless in PvE.

Items in PvP cannot be used in PvE because they always have perfect mods (once unlocked).

Items in PvE can be used in PvP because a PvP will always be equal or better in mods.

If you allow things that are unique to one or the other cross over, we must allow other things to cross over.

How about making a PvP character with a perfect modded weapon then using it in PvE? Only then will i agree to 15k for PvP

besides, PvP only players already have something a PvE player only can never have, which is Rank.

So what am i saying here? Basically PvE and PvP both have something unique to offer. If the uniqueness is lost, we lose incentive to play one or the other. If you never play PvP, youll never have rank or fame. If you never play PvE, youll never have 15k or FoW. Again, motivation.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lyra_song

>.< This thread is turning into a flaming ball of poo. This is getting dumb people. Look at the advantages and disadvantages. YOU CANT HAVE BOTH.

Advantage of PvP Character:
Starts at lvl 20
Has all attributes without attribute quest
Access to unlocking any skills in any order (even skills not in their profession)
Access to unlocking any mods in any order (without the randomness and frustration of unidentified weapons)
Can use weapons, dyes, and shields from PvE (with use of Xunlai Storage)
Access to armor and weapons without any cost (once unlocked)
Access to elite skills without killing and capturing from high level bosses
Can be repeatedly deleted and remade without losing any investment in time.

Disadvantage of PvP character:
Only available in PvP (big disadvantage)
Can only use 1.5k armor
Pet will only be Elder Wolf
Weapons can only be common skins (although max with perfect mods)

Advantage of PvE character:
Access to story (though some people could care less about this)
Access to PvP areas
Access to merchants/traders/etc.
Access to Fissure of Woe and UW
Access to rarer skins on weapons (but still same stats as PvP weapons)
Access to more expensive and exotic looking armor (but still same stats PvP armor)
Access to more pet options and pet training (dire, elder and hearty)
Can be used as a PvP character.

Disadvantages of PvE character:
Much much bigger time investment than a PvP character
Cannot use PvP weapons.
Cannot use PvP unlocked skills.
Elite skills must be captured by finding and killing high level bosses

The BIGGER investment in a PvE character is what makes it considerably different from the PvP character which can be deleted and remade in a few minutes. It takes MUCH longer for a PvE character to fight with a PVP character on an even level of equipment considering they have access to weapons and skills just by talking to the Priest. PvE players have to invest more time in getting weapons (collectors or rare) that are even or on par with PvP modded weapons.

If you want to unlock 15k armor with faction, then faction should be harder to get. Or it requires you to spend FAME.

This is me getting annoyed cause people are flaming each other which is uneccessary and immature.

Here i am re-itterating my point of the diffferences between PvE and PvP and different motivators that would cause a person to play one or the other.

I am also giving the reason why i think PvE players hold their rare items/weapons/armor in high regard...because it took a while to get it.

and the last 2 lines was me giving a sarcastic suggestion as to what could be done.

Quote:

Originally Posted by lyra_song

Cant you see my point? You already have access to all those things so easily with one universal currency (being faction). If i want a great item or elite for a warrior, id need to fight high level warrior enemies. If i want a great item or elite for a monk, high level monk enemies, etc. A PvP player can just go to arena and indiscrimanately win. Killing a Warrior or Monk wont unlock specific things for you, you can use faction any way you want. Its completely flexible and compared to what PvE has to go through, very easy and simple.

I started my monk out as a PvP only. Then i deleted her and made a PvE, but i got bored with PvE as a monk and went back to PvP only. I didn't unlock many skills for her as a PvE character, in fact i only went as far as Nolani academy. The rest of my monk skills were unlocked with faction, including the monk elites that i use.

Being a PvE character means you GIVE UP all the things you unlocked.

"You have unlocked [some skill here] " So what? i cant use it on another character and I'll lose it if i decide to delete this character and have to start from scratch.

I am using the generic tattoo set on my monk because thats all a PvP player can have. Im thinking of deleting her and making a new PvE monk JUST TO GET 15k armor on her. I will lose all the skills i unlocked and have to start over before she is viable for PvP once again.

Its not as simple as having the same armor as PvE. Its a matter of incentive and reason to play. As a pvp player, your incentive should be to WIN, not to look pretty.

Again...same basic thing.

Cant you see the point im trying to get here? Hypocrite? I think im being very direct and consistent with my points.

And in this thread:

Quote:

Originally Posted by lyra_song

its not really a viable option to have a whole new set of armor for every character class. designing, modeling, skinning and then properly implementing it will take a while. But perhaps the expansion will carry something new. *shrug*

im iffy on this subject because this game is PvP-centric already...having PvP only armor will alienate PvE only players.

I would love some new armor though...

This is a new topic...about not unlocking 15k but rather giving exclusive armor to PvP. Like i said in my post im "iffy" which means i am undecided. I do have a slot just for PvP and i would LOVE exclusive armor. But I'm not sure.

You are calling me a hypocrite because i disagree with 15k for PvP but im unsure about exclusive armor for PvP???

Im being perfectly consistent. and again, i reiterate my point about incentive to play.

You seem to want aesthetics, but you refuse to play PvE. These two thinking cant come together the way the game is now.

seraphite86 · Oct 31, 2005, 06:45 PM // 18:45

I'm sorry but I am more focused in killing people in Peer vs. Peer than rather stare with awe at their already uncommon Fissure of Woe armor. If I win, I'll play my "Humiliation" sound from Quake 100 times.

Peer vs. Peer armor? Negative.

fergburger · Oct 31, 2005, 07:00 PM // 19:00

Quote:

Originally Posted by Luthor

Why don't you stop flaming. I never started this fight, you did.

Actually, you've started a fight with about everyone who's posted, with you belittling, and assumptions that we're selfish PVE'ers just cuz we think your idea is stupid. You sir, are a hipocritical asshole, claiming we think nothing of ourselves, then you take it upon yourself to put us down and attempt to glorify your position as a PVP ambasitor (sp) who's just trying to bring fairness and balance to the world of GW.

BS, Mr. Luthor, bs. You cannot claim in one hand about what we're saying/doing is wrong, then do the same in the other hand. I do think that the 15k armors should be available to pvp'ers after they've bought it in PVE, but as it was said before - it would still bring no substance or any more point/fun to pvp. True Pvp'ers care about the competition, not the looks of their fighters.

As for PVP being what GW was made for - are you an idiot by choice, or were you truly born dumb? PVP is hardly the "reason" GW was made. PVP is half the GW experience, as it was intended. If you want 15k, Fissure, or whatever armor on your character, you are more than welcome to join PVE and buy them, and still PVP some with that toon; however, I expect you are too good for that, and would rationalize your choice with a good ol "why should I have to PVE to get that armor...it's not fair /cries" crap.

Get over yourself Luthor; you complain that PVE'ers cry and whine and bitch and moan and what-have-you, but here you are doing the exact same thing, but are doing it in a much ruder - more attacking way to everyone who thinks different than you. But, what do I know; I'm just a selfish PVE'er.

Draco Hunt · Nov 01, 2005, 03:07 AM // 03:07

I dont agree with you about making special pvp armors. I would agree with you if you said that pvp players can unlock all the same armors as the pve players for an ammount of faction. Also i would like it if pvp players could unlock dye and mix with it for there pvp chars.

Get a look a my suggestions maybe you will like them.

http://www.guildwarsguru.com/forum/s...ad.php?t=67916

Chev of Hardass · Nov 01, 2005, 02:38 PM // 14:38

I agree, but make it cost more than 10,000 faction. Raise the cap on Faction and give me something to spend Faction on again!!!!

fergburger · Nov 01, 2005, 07:51 PM // 19:51

Why does Luthor have 2 threads about the same damn thing?

Asrial · Nov 01, 2005, 08:03 PM // 20:03

Quote:

Originally Posted by Catalin Dracul

If someone wants to PvP and have cool looking armour why should they have to grind to get it?

..because that's how everyone in the game has to get their cool looking armor.

The game is NOT PvP only, or PvE only. It's PvP AND PvE.

You want to unlock all skills, you PvE'er? Best get to PvP'ing.

You want to have fancier looking armor, you PvP'er? Best get to PvE'ing.

qwe4rty · Nov 01, 2005, 08:21 PM // 20:21

Quote:

Originally Posted by Catalin Dracul

How long does it take to farm for the 1mil+gold that you need for FoW armour?
Oh yeah, a LONG time. If someone wants to PvP and have cool looking armour why should they have to grind to get it?

I love this argument. It makes so much sense, don't you agree?
Why should PvPers grind a long time to get cool looking armor? The SAME reason PvE should.

The name of the game does not mean at all that PvP is better than PvE.
If you actually read the history that came in the game manual, you would know that the name Guild Wars refers to the actualy wars between guilds that happened before the Searing, in which case, it has a lot to do with PvE. I'm not saying only PvE as these battles are "re-enacted" through PvP.

Second, PvE and PvP each have there own end cosmetics.

PvP = rank. While rank may not be indicative of actual skills, the emotes do look cool

PvE = Expensive Armor. While Expensive Armor may not be indicative of actual skills, the armor does look cool

If your calling for good looking armor for PvP, you better be ready to accept PvE emotes.

My vote?
I say don't give the expensive armor too PvP, but do let them have all the armor choices in terms of attributes.
I say don't give PvE fancy looking emotes.

They each have there perks, lets keep it at that.

Roll out the new content!!!

kendaki · Nov 01, 2005, 08:25 PM // 20:25

This seems to be a big fuss over a simple answer. Guild Wars set up the whole unlocking system via PvE so that people would play PvE instead of strictly PvP. Granted this may at first seem unfair to the PvPers but it's so that you have to do some work for what you've got. Then they came out with the priests and faction allowing those who focus souly on PvP to use faction to buy their upgrades. A deffinate step forward for the PvPers. Basicly it all boils down to. The unlocking system was to encourage the PvPers to actually play PvE to earn their skills and items instead of just having it all handed to them on a silver platter. Having PvP only armor doesn't make much sense either. BUT being able to unlock armor like the 15k armor and FoW armor would deffinately be a good balance to this issue.

Symeon · Nov 01, 2005, 08:35 PM // 20:35

hmm maybe there should be something called uber-faction (1 uber-faction-1000 faction)

even if u use the faction, the uber-faction stays there

150 uber-faction = 15k armour
(150,000 faction)
500 uber-faction = fow armour
(500,000 faction)

Takes a while to get, seems fair enough to me.
Ermm just a random thought...

Zexion · Nov 01, 2005, 08:42 PM // 20:42

Quote:

Originally Posted by Catalin Dracul

How long does it take to farm for the 1mil+gold that you need for FoW armour?
Oh yeah, a LONG time. If someone wants to PvP and have cool looking armour why should they have to grind to get it?

They should grind because PvE players have to grind for it too!

_Zexion